Influence (ubnuw)

En mien cover version os "Influencia" os Charly García, un argentine sehngver, tarjen do sambahsa. https://soundcloud.com/martinrinconbotero/infuence-cover-charly-garcia/s-Zf92b
 (songv ed link ubnuwen!)

Her es id mien tarjem con id texte ios original version:

Influence Tarjen ab Martín Rincón Botero Ghehdo vide, ghehdo sayge ghehdo vide, ghehdo khisses ed sayge semject hat changen. N'est pro me druve-ye stragno. Io ne vahm, ne vahm curre io ne vahm auter curre au mwaungsoue ud mieno beurt, io ne mehno de danger. Sei buit kwohrn pro me Oh, to io tehrbo woide. Bet est meg difficil spehce, sei semject controlt mien ses. In id budmen os me, in id budmen os me vido paur ed vido suspecens samt nov fascination mieno. Ne suawoidim quo est, ne suawoidim quo est, tu saycsies: "sont intuitiona" ta sont tik druv alertes. Dehlgo meswo truses, Oh, to io tehrbo woide. Bet est meg difficil spehce, sei semject controlt mien ses. Ghehdo vide, ghehdo khisses ed sayge mien mento quod swehpt ender tieno influence. Uno parto os me, uno parto os me, id baht: —Stop!, ihsist pior dalg, neti io ghehdo arke to. Peito wahid resiste, peito wahid resiste ed fin-ye n'est un probleme. Khauristat est tod pein. Sei esiem alyo ses ne ghehdiem fahame to. Bet est tant difficil spehce, sei semject controlt mien ses. Ghehdo vide, ghehdo khisses ed sayge gwit mieno quod swehpt ender tieno influence. Tod, tien stragno influence!

Influencia Ab Charly García Puedo ver y decir, puedo ver y decir y sentir: algo ha cambiado. Para mí no es extraño. Yo no voy a correr, yo no voy a correr ni a escapar de mi destino, yo no pienso en peligro. Si fue hecho para mí lo tengo que saber. Pero es muy difícil ver, si algo controla mi ser. En el fondo de mí, en el fondo de mí veo temor y veo sospechas con mi fascinación nueva. Yo no sé bien qué es, Yo no sé bien que es, vos dirás: "Son intuiciones" Verdaderas alertas. Debo confiar en mí, lo tengo que saber. Pero es muy difícil ver, si algo controla mi ser. Puedo ver y decir y sentir mi mente dormir bajo tu influencia. Una parte de mi, una parte de mi dice: -Stop!, fuiste muy lejos, no puedo contenerlo. Trato de resistir, trato de resistir y al final no es un problema. Que placer esta pena. Si yo fuera otro ser no lo podría entender. Pero es tan difícil ver, si algo controla mi ser. Puedo ver y sentir y decir mi vida dormir, será por tu influencia. ¡Esta extraña influencia!

Tri gensa

Quayque ne dar som member ios Sambahsa Yahoo grupp, ho just lisen sem proposens qua sont ter ed ne waito hin id accepten ios administrator kay scribe mieno mayn de id proposen os nudes tik tri grammatical gensa. Ka nudtor os sambahsa, mehno aproposs od id bahsa ghehdt bihe simplihsen, bet shayad ne est possible simplihes quanto (ka actual nudtor esiet also duskwol change quanto ye un wahid tid), ob to, me tanko tik ep todghi proposen de ia tri gensa.

Sei spehco id table iom pronomens (yaschi gnohn ka "id table ios dekhschat"... joc ;-) ), vido od id probleme est od id dative ed id genitive ios neutral est id sam kam id dative ed id genitive ios masculin. Un makdour kay nudes tik tri grammatical gensa ghehdiet ses nudes semper neutral pro ia falls quan anghen "naudht" id indeterminat bet change ia dative ed genitive ios masculin med ia dative ed genitive ios actual indeterminat (ed ne nudes id indeterminat pet). To maynt od id dative ed id genitive ios nov masculin esient id actual pro id indeterminat. Esiet pro me interessant sayge mathalan "id mensc" ed "id person". Ne esiet sem confusion, ob est evident od "mensc" ed "person" ne sont jects. Hatta quan leitiet de anthopomorphic objects (kam leikus), to esiet clar ob id contexte —anghen poitt mathalan sayge med id actual systeme "id mensc" menxu bahnd de un mensclik leiku, contra "el mensc" quel bayght tod leiku. Quayque tod distinction kwehct interessant in id theoria, in id praxis est sambahsa un bahsa do quod anghen bilhassa kwehrt tarjems, ed dat tod caracteristique ne est present in ia natural bahsas, est baygh improbable od anghen dehlct tarjmes talg situation wahid-ye nudend un extra genos.

Ithan, esient ia sekwent exempels (ulter "id mensc", "id person", "id anghen"):

• Io dahm un buk ei studyent (nov dative neutral pro "veut" indeterminat). Io dahm un buk al studyent (nov dative masculin).

• Vido id studyent / vido ia studyents. (genos neutral).
• Id buk al studyent (nov genitive masculin) / id buk ios studyent (genitive neutral instet indeterminat). Etc.

Anghen naudhiet dar ia werds pro "who". Schowi: quel/qui. To ne mayniet od esient quar grammatical gensa, ob est lyt exageren mehne od tik dwo werds forment un grammatical genos. Ta werds (quel, qui) sont druve-ye ia werds qua anghen naudht, meis quem id hol indeterminat genos.

Sont bet alya falls in qua anghen baht to, mathalan: Sei anghen eiskwiet kwehre to, el ghehdiet paurske kam. Her est un meis stylistic sibia. Anghen tehrbiet repetihes "anghen" instet "el" in tod fall. In id actual neud os sambahsa, "anghen" est yaschi un synonym pro "el". In id dictionar "anghen" maynt "person", bet anghen (iter) neudt tod werd yaschi quasi ka pronomen, hatta destull opser quem "el" in normal conversations. Mehno od to est un baygh interessant sibia pro un bahsa, shayad hatta interessanter quem id existence os un quart genos. 

Ye alyo gon, id possessive pronomen "ids", ghehldiet pro bo neutral ed indeterminat.

Id preposition "os" esiet "es/em" pro id masculin. Neid indeterminat.

De id vocalic euphonisation ne bahm, ob ta sont tik optional endens. In theoria ia ghehdient reman kam ia sont. Id hol systeme kwehkiet general-ye meis economic quem nun ed ho id pondos od id ne esiet minter precis quem id actual systeme (ed id table samt ia pronomens esiet minter dekhschatwent). ;-)

Stands os conscience

En id dwot capitule os "I Sept Akmaks", dankend-ye naturelika Olivier Simon ob eys correctures ed explications.

Woisit is eet un fur. Bet id categoria in quod is wohs ne interessit iom. Maghses id werd fur ne esiet in consonance con eys inner stand. Existit alter khisses, nam-ye id rund silence entrend kam un cylinder ex stal id masse os eys cranium, tem quem id likwit boder iom pro quanto quo ne se relatit con eys bieda. 

 

Tod circule os silence ed os temos interrupit id continuen om eys idees, tem quem Erdosain ne ghohdit assocye, samt id kleitu os sien raisonen, sien hem kalen dom con id institution kyusen med id nam os karcer. 

 

Mohnit telegramme-ye, suppremend-ye prepositions, quo est erghend. Ghatit mohrta hors in qua habiet ghohden ferface quosquid buhsa, aun ob to is habiet id mulayim mehn os sien responsibilitat. Logic-ye, un judce ne habiet preten talg phenomen. Bet is ja eet tuich, eet un charapakh os wir moven ab id automatisme ios adet.

Sei continuit orbatend-ye in id Sukercompagnie ne buit kay raubhe meis mikdars om denars, bet ob eespeht un extraordinar wakya —immense-ye extraordinar— quod dahiet un neskohpten wehrtmen eysi gwit ed iom salviet ud id catastrophe quod is vis oistehmbe proscher eys dwer. 

 

Tod stumia os sogn ed achak quod kwehlih iom per ia diens kam un swehpghanger, Erdosain namdehsit id, "id zone ios gjian". 

 

Erdosain fikrit od solgo zone existit uper id nivell iom urbs, ye dwo meters hog, ed depigit id sib graphic-ye sub id forme tom regions om salines au deserts qua in ia maps sont bekipen med pointovals, tant bengu quem ia mleges as un seld. 

 

Tod zone os gjian eet id consequence ios paytten im anghens. Ed kam un nebh os iadic gas id bewohgh se gwaur-ye pointtos altro, penetrend-ye walls ed tehrend-ye ia binas, aun luses sien plane ed horizontal forme; gjian om dwo dimensions quod guiliotinend-ye ia gurgules likwit in ta senters un posgust os oisleucten. 

 

Talg eet id bfwendwanen quod Erdosain sib dahsit quando eekheisst ia prest gomranauseas. 

 

—Quod est quo kwehro med mien gwit? —eesayct sib tun, eiskwend-ye shayad kwitres med tod question ia origins ios gjian quod schakhwatih ei un existence in quod id cras ne esiet id continuen ios hoyd samt ids meid os wakt, bet semject distinct ed semper neskohpten kam in ia antslehnkens iom nordamerican films, quer el ghestern gheus est el chef os un secret societat os hoyd, ed ia aventureus dactylographiste una incognito multimillionaire.

Solg naudhen om daumsa quod ne hieb possible satisfacens —dat is eet un aunsuccess inventer ed un felon exter id karcer— eelinkwt ei in ia subsequent brens un ragewent aciditat ed ia dents kheissas kam pos giues citron.

In ta circumstances ei einfiell bawlawias. Is hatta imaginit od i riches, plictic ob klues ia schikays im miskins, struxeer mahibe kafas qua quadrilles em cavalls eesehlkent. Palachi chusen ob sien augos eegveruent i traurics med kamchik pro gvehne kwauns, visiblascend ei certain scene: un mater, buland ed jolida, cursit kye apter id kafas ud quer, inter ia stanghs, eekalit iam ays kayk son, hin un "kunar", plictic ob klues iam mugihes, pelu tundes ep id cap, bayaldissih iam med id stolg ios kamchik. 

 

Vanievs tod coschmar, Erdosain saygit sib dekhschaten ob seswo:

—Bet qualg atmen, qualg atmen est tod quod ho? —Ed dat eys imaginen eegweupt id motor elan quod id coschmar ei hieb suwen, continuit: —Od ho gnaht pro ses un lacai, un tom profumen ed vili lacais con quens ias riche larinas lassent attache sib ia broscha ios pizdbehrer, menxu is maaschouk deumt un cigar cubhen ep id sofa.

Ed iter eys mehns eefallent antskandend-ye do in un cucin placen in ia kellars os un baygh deluxe konak. Perambh id table se eemovent dwo hajibs, ulter is choffeur ed un arabo qui eepehrnt jartiers ed profumes. In solg circumstance is vehsiet un sword jaquet quod ne eenact id cloin, ed un albh cravat. Stayg kaliet iom "is Poti", un wir qui eet eys physic dwin, bet qui ne eexeurt sien moustache ed qui eeneudt un bril. Is ne wois quo desirit ud iom eys chef, bet naiwo myehrsiet id singular spect quod so xubh ei salgend-ye id salon. Ed is eereict id cucin kay plehpe de sreups con iom choffeur qui, ant id joy iam hajibs ed id silence ios pederast arabios, eeranwt kam is hieb perverten iam dugter as un megil potnia, certain gohnos os pauk oumer.

Ed is repetih sib swo iter:

—Ya, io som un lacai. Ho id atmen os un druv lacai— ed eerinct ia dents ob satisfacen quando se hakarit ed humilyit med tod weidos ant iom swo.

Alya kers eevidt se salgend id kamer as un veut ed fidayi baclar, behrend samt effusion un gwaur bienki, bet in tod moment iom trohvit un pryster assidu ios dom, qui smeihend-ye, ed impassive-ye, bahsit ei:

—Kam leitmos con ia religieus dehlgens, Ernesto? —Ed is, Ernesto, Ambrosio au José, gwiviet barbeus-ye un gwit os obscene ed hypocrite sloug.

Un trehsen os follia eescutt iom quan is eemehnt de to.

Is woid, ah, kam is suawoid!, od is eet gratis offendend, murdareihend sien atmen. Ed id dekhschat quod kheisst is wir qui unte un coschmar fallt do in id abysse in quod ne siet mehre, eesubeiht is swo menxu eiskwmen-ye se eestect med slamm. 

 

Ob yando eys las eet os humilyen, kam tod im saints qui eekunent ia skars im duskweiters; ne ob compassion, bet kay ses meis aunwirtic ios pietat al Div, quel se kheissiet marzen os vide i paurske id warwn med tant repugnant pruva. 

 

Bet quando eedispareihnt ud iom ta images, ed tik eerestet in eys conscience id "vanscho os woide id sense ios gwit", is eebaht sib:

—No, io ne som un lacai... ne som druve-ye oino... —ed is hieb iskwen ihes ed budes sien esor kay ia sympathisiet con iom, kay ia rahimatiet eys tant hideus ed ghema mehns. Bet id mehmen od ob iam is hieb biht forcen tant ops ad sacrifice se, eepleht iom med un boder rancor, ed in ta circumstances is habiet iskwt nices iam.

Ed is wois gohd od sem dien ia taslimiet ad alter ed so eet un addihen element ad alter factors qua component eys gjian. 

 

Schowi quando is klohpt ia prest dwogim pesos, is staunit ob id facilitat med quod anghen ghehdt kwehre "to", maghses ob pre klehpte is credih tehrbe vinces un serie om scrupules qua in eys actual conditions os gwit is ne ghohd gnohe. Sib eebaht pos:

—Est un question om habe vol ed kwehre to, neid meis.

Ed "to" eerehmt id gwit, med "to" is hieb denars qua ei eecausent stragna khisses ob algve to eecost neid. Ed id ajib pro Erdosain ne consistit in id klehpt, bet od ne eet in eys wultu un kwekmor od is eet un fur. Is bihsit forcen ad klehpte ob is algvit un maigher salair. Octgim, cent, 120 pesos, ob tod mikdar depensit ia encassen quantitats, chunke eys salair se composit ex un dulal pro cada encassen cent.

 

Ithan, eent diens in qua is behriet inter quar e penkmil pesos, menxu is, mal-ye piuten, eetehrpt endure id stehnken os un jusdan ex fals lieter in quos interior se eekowpt id felicitat sub id forme om banknotes, cheques, girotransfers ed trattes pro el behrer.

Eys esor ei mambhit ia beghsses qua ia cadadien endurit; is klusit in silence ays mambhens ed pos, mon, bahsit sib:

—Quod est quo ghehdo kwehre io?

Quando is hieb id idee, quando un smulk idee yakinih iom od is ghehdiet khanye sien besi, is khiss id joy os un inventer. Raubhe? Kam to ne enfiell ei pre?

 

Ed Erdosain se perbluf ob sien aunimkania, hatta mambhend-ye sib mank os initiative, ob in tod zaman (tri munts ant ia narren wakyas) is endurit naudhen os quant buhsa, speit od cadadien passeer ep sien hands crohscen quantitats om denars.

Ed quo facilih eys fraudwent maneuvres buit id mank os administration quod eet in id Sukercompagnie.

Id philosophic sohkw: oraryo ka gwiv bahsa

Pos mien experiments med Lidepla ed Sambahsa, ho inkapen id sohkw ios philosophic, conceptual fundament pro Sambahsa, ed general-ye, pro id "cheus" ios optimal planbahsa, exter tik practic raisons. Pro to ho lisen id preface ed introduction ios buk "A Grammar of Modern Indo-European" (un grammatic os moderne oraryo) ab Carlos Quiles ed Fernando López-Menchero. In tod buk biht id MIE (Modern Indo-European) exposen. Tod est id bahsa ios project Dnghu, quod biht proposen ka moderne, "standard" oraryo. Ne ho dar lisen ia explications de id bahsa pet, schowi ne ghehdo dar scribe de tod bahsa, bet ye prest vid id kwehct destull complicat pro ses druve-ye nuden ka baht bahsa. Ne woidim. Bet to ne est tant important. 

 

Lises tod introduction hat sense in id contexte os uces Sambahsa, ob to maynt lises de id culture quos reconstrugen bahsa anghen euct. Lakin, id idee os uces un bahsa quod est basen ep id oraryo hat id particularitat od id culture quod tod bahsa bayght neti exist. Schowi, in id actual status iom jects, anghen dehlgiet ses convicen de id importance os uces un reconstrugen bahsa basen ep id oraryo, au sollt trehve eventual-ye tod importance kay ses motiven ad uces dalger. Sei anghen est convicen de to, el ghehdt mathalan uces id MIE, au Sambahsa, quom eten est precis-ye id oraryo. Lakin, ia technic differences inter ia dwo bahsas sont kwecto mier. Ka motivation pro uces talg bahsa ies autors os MIE bayanent: "The interest in the study and use of Indo-European as a living language today is equivalent to the interest in the study and use of these ancient languages as learned languages in the the [sic] Byzantine Empire, India and Mediaeval Europe, respectively."¹ [Id interesse de id studye ed neud ios oraryo ka gwiv bahsa hoyd est equivalent ad id interesse de id studye ed neud tom ancian bahsas ka ucen bahsas in id Rhomay Empire, Hind, ed Medieval Europe, respective-ye]. 

 

Quayque ne credeihm od id hoydic talimat os un moderne oraryo esiet equivalent med ia motivations in ta zamans pro uces un ancian bahsa, mehno od id moderne motivation pro uces un moderne oraryo ghehdiet ses in id historia ios aryo civilisation pet. Ta ancian bahsas hieb in id zaman un special maynen pro i leuds qui nud ta bahsas. Tod maynen est indisputable-ye in id certain cultural perception os un awo bahsa ka eten os un certain civilisation. To maynt, in id fall os Sambahsa, od est important woide de quo leit in tod oraryo culture, sei anghen assumpt od id druv aptergrund os Sambahsa sont precis-ye i oraryi, hatta quan todghi bahsa hat includen maung werds ex alya familias. 

 

Resumend ia differences inter MIE ed Sambahsa, id probleme in MIE, kam Olivier mi hat bfwendwanen, ed kam anghen leist in tod buk, est od ne sont ter maung moderne (ed ne tant moderne!) lexis pro "normal" hoydic concepta, ed maung werds bihnt artificial-ye reinventen. Un tom ubfallend werds bayna alya est id stragno werd pro universe: oinowṛstós. Est absurd mehne od ia aryi hieb ja creen quant concepto ed werd pro cada ject, mohnen ed definihen quant, hatta nies moderne concepts ed werds. Sei esiet ithan, "oinowṛstós" esiet un gohd predecessor os "universus". Bet id realitat est od id concept hat un latin origin, pelu secules pos od i oraryi wandereer ep id surface ios ardh. Talg composite werds sont ya baygh artificial pro un bahsa quo supponend-ye est tik un "reconstruction". —Her esiet gohd kyunggiawe, od talg reconstruction ios oraryo samt id ziel ses iter un gwiv bahsa est impossible aun addihes werds qua ne bayghent id oraryo, ob maung moderne concepts (kam "universe") buir exmohnen maung secules pos. 

 

Trans id werd pro universe, tod ed alya stragna exempels om nov veutihen werds sont ithan exposen:

Examples of loan translations from modern NWIE languages are e.g. from Latin aquaeduct (Lat. aquaeductus → MIE aqāsduktos) or universe (Lat. uniuersus<*oin(i)-uors-o-<*oino-wṛt-to- → MIE oinowṛstós ‘turned into one’); from English, like software (from Gmc. samþu-, warō → MIE somtúworā); from French, like ambassador (from Cel. amb(i)actos → MIE ambhíagtos ‘public servant’); or chamber (from O.Lat. camera, from PGk. kamárā, ‘vault’ → MIE kamarā); from Russian, like bolshevik (MIE belijówikos); etc.²

To deict od id concept os naturalitat est, bariem in sem falls, in connexion med id cultural origin iom werds. Reinvente sem werd ne est necessar-ye un vantage pro un (plan)bahsa. Ta reinventions, in id fall os un bahsa quod bihiet ucen ka dwot bahsa in un international contexte (hatta MIE bihiet ucen ed nuden ithan!), incurrent id danger os ses fahamen ka alien ab id mund, lika ad quo wakyet med maung werds in esperanto au alya planbahsas. Quayque talg reinventions kwehkent logic, sont complete-ye innecessar (vid heruper!).

Bayna ia jects qua anghen ghehdt lises de Occidental/Interlingue, bahsa quod noroct-ye hat esen baht ab maung lucid leuds qui hant scripto sem interessant articles, ter est id concept ios invention iom lexis ab un certain culture, ed kam ta werds (au inventions) buir importen do Interlingue. In id article "Esque Occidental es Romanophil?" [Kwe Occidental est romanophil?] ab E. de Wahl anghen leist de ia selection om werds om different linguistic familias qua buir exmohnen ab certain cultures. Ithan anghen hat hellen werds pro science ed philosophia, latin werds pro id organic gwit ed social-politic lexis, italian werds pro id music ed bank operations, yunyun. 

 

In Sambahsa to est yaschi id fall. Bet est kwecto yaschi id fall mathalan pro asian werds ed concepts, qua ne necessar-ye habmos in id west. Un tom werds qua ho nuper trohven est id werd "rlaurjien", quod med mien modeste linguistic imkans ho relaten con id chinese werd "lǎorén". Ho sprohgen Olivier de tod werd ed is baht: "Kalo ta werds "sinitic" ob ne existent tik in Chinese Mandarin sontern yaschi in sem nieber bahsa, in tod fall Japanese (sonst ne habiem ghens un werd quod exist tik in Chinese): rojin. Yaschi Guangdungwa (official bahsa in Hong Kong ed Macao) hat "loujan". Id Sambahsa est schowi un medio inter Mandarin ed Japanese." 

 

Id englisch maynen os "rlaurjien" est "senior, elderly person". "Senior" est un werd samt maunga maynens, schowi, sei anghen eiskwiet bahe exclusiv-ye de un awis person, el dehlgiet describe to simple-ye med mathalan "awis person", sei tod sinitic werd ne existiet in Sambahsa.

 

Alyo werd quod pehndo interessant est id werd "ocolo" (at the other side of), quos origin ho trohven menxu eeleiso un part ios "Tolk de Chakobsa", nam-ye slav. De ta dwo werds anghen ghehdt ja kaue od ia werds au concepts qua sont compact ed important pro certain mier regions bihnt importen do Sambahsa per un similar weidos med quod "universe" buit importen do Sambahsa: un latin, compact concept, wayt-ye gnohn biht takriban direct-ye importen. To lasst yaschi vide, ma anghen ne neudt maung composit werds in Sambahsa. Quayque id composit oinowṛstós ghehdiet kwehke ka exageration, ithan kwehkent ops ia composit werds, besonters quan anghen ja gnoht un certain compact werd pro tod concept ed arasih ghat talg composition (c.F. esperanto, ido, etc.). Lakin, sei ne est ter un dohbrer makdour, un composite est id prabh weidos.

Sei id culture quod hat exmohnen sem werd est tant essential, ed ob to anghen euct un bahsa basen ep id oraryo, mankiet dar include id origin iom werds do id Sambahsa dictionar, bariem slemb-ye med sem bragvens. To kwehriet od anghen ghehdt localise meis facil id cultural component os un certain werd, alnos kam id oraryo culture ghehdt biht dyohrct per id historia ios hindeuropay civilisation.

Martín Rincón Botero, Aprile, 2015

 

1 A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Quiles, López-Menchero, pag. 12

2 A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Quiles, López-Menchero, pag. 44, 45

Spehm tu daunts

En un songv as svensk Molly Nilsson, "I hope you die", quod ho tarjen do sambahsa, samt correctures ab Olivier Simon.

Spehm tu daunts

Baby yando io ne te prete

Bet es id abstract art in mien moderne museium

ed baby yando linkwms mutu

bet ia ruines os mien kerd stahnt kam un colliseium.

Spehm tu daunts ye mien gon

I dwo em nos ye id exact sam tid

Spehm ne siems dauntes pos diu

I dwo em nos ye id exact sam tid.

Bet baby vasyo est trans control

bet baby ghehds mien atmen habe

Spehm tu daunts ye mien gon

Baby vasyo est aiwa wayt

bet de id dien ne chwoym mehne

quan daunmos ye id exact sam tid.

Baby tien liubh est mierer quem un football pold, som is halwghen os tien kerd

yando sehlmos, yando leusmos nies

sogna

Bet semper vehso ia colors os tien swoin.

Spehm tu daunts ye mien gon

I dwo em nos ye id exact sam tid

Spehm ne siems dauntes pos diu

I dwo em nos ye id exact sam tid.

Baby es id coulst meun quan id noct hat inkapen

Ed som un goth in id sol

ed ghehds swehpe unte ia lient diens

Woidim od mehns som morbid quan io bahm

Spehm tu daunts ye mien gon

I dwo em nos ye id exact sam tid

Spehm ne siems dauntes pos diu

I dwo em nos ye id exact sam tid.

Discussion con Olivier

Pos un destull long interessant discussion con Olivier Simon aproposs mien experiment con sambahsa, quer ho piten sehkwe id concept os Interlingua, nam-ye, nudes werds qua sont comprehensibler pro id "pleisto" im leuds, eiskwiem publie sem parts tos conversation. Kam ho antwohrden Sylvain, kwehcto id probleme est in imagine ia hol implications ios oraryo ka base pro un international planbahsa. Id conviction antreusend tod base est to quo differencyet sambahsa ab alya planbahsas.

Oino iom dwois qua io nuper hieb eet an uces sambahsa est quasi kam uces un mohrt bahsa. De to ho saygen:

Ya, credeiho credeihm tun od uces sambahsa est lyt kam uces mathalan latin. Id est, quayque un bahsa part-ye reconstrugen, un "mohrt bahsa" kam latin: anghen dehlct uces formes qua ne existent meis in id proposen forme, ergo mohrt. To ghehdt bihe id charm os sambahsa pro id fall id biht quayt-ye wayt-ye weiden, ne woidim. In tod sense ne est un "brigvbahsa" kam ho mohnen. Io ho mohnen od maghses in ia raudhs wey humans nos ghehdmos trehve, od ter in ia raudhs esiet id connecter pro nos quanti. Esperanto hat piten connect i leuds med ids "logic", ed med un meis au minter commun werdskaut pro i europays. Io hieb preten od id philosophia os sambahsa esiet kam un "endergrund brigv" au "endergrund passage", in id sense od wey bedyehrcmos od ter in id budmen wey "hindeuropays" gwehmmos os semject quod maung leuds ghehdent recognihes ka commun, plus alya werds os alya familias qua dahnt ei bahsa meis internationalitat. Id probleme est od quan ia werds sont tant veut quem ne est facil trehve id direct connexion con un gwiv bahsa, tun inkapo mehne od euco un mohrt bahsa. Ob to mehno od ter sont alya aspecta quem id historia au id theoria, nam-ye id psycologic perception.

Olivier hat dahn mi un meg gohd antwehrd quod copio part-ye her:

Yaghi, Latin hat baygh prestige, ed esdi ne est extreme-ye international, un talg neutralitat ghehdt bihe ayt un vantage (maght bihe maynt od idso structure est prokwem tod os rusk, ed est un kerbabbahsa os sanskrit). Id druv probleme ne est ids complicat grammatic (druve-ye, espaniol verbal conjugation est lyt complicater), bet id mank os vocabularo pro moderne jects. Ed quan id hat lakin sem vocabular, id est ops udzamant.

Kam scripsit un disciple os Von Wahl : http://interlingue.pbworks.com/w/page/4888044/Essentie%20de%20Occidental

Li homogenità de un lingue ne consiste in to que omni su paroles es prendet de un sol lingue, ma in su styl intrinsec, a quel es submisset omni formes, anc ti de orìgine foren. Ergo it es exagerat, si professor Peano prende omni paroles de su Interlingua solmen del latin, mem ta, u ili ne es internationalmen conosset e u ili es ja morit. Peano prende por exemple por «guerre» li parol bello (de L bellum), quel existe solmen in li du rari derivates: belligerante (Occ guerreant) e bellicoso (Occ guerresc). Ma lli parol «bell-» self, in ti antiqui sense ha desapparti hotèmpore ex omni lingues romanic, e ha esset viceat per «guerre» e «guerra» quel vive mem in li parol international «guerilla»; pro to Occidental ha selectet li vocabul «guerre», afin a D Wirren (Occ trublamentes) e Wirrwarr (caos) e a A war (guerre). In ultra li radica bell es conosset de omni romanes in li signification, quel it ha recivet in Occidental, i. e. D schön, A beautiful etc.

Li international comprensibilità del paroles deve esser direct, ìnmediatmen sensibil por omni educat homes mem sin latin studies preparatori, ne solmen por docti latinistes. Departiente solmen del latin on posse nequande arrivar a un modern international lingue, quel contene adminim un ters de vocabules non-latinic. Circa un demí de omni latin paroles es mort por sempre e ne plu posse esser revivificat. Li rot del historie ne torna a retro. Nequande plu li antiqui signification de copia (stock, multitè), charta (paper), lapis (rocc, petre), classis (flotte) etc posse reviver.

Sambahsa yaschi emt moderne werds pro moderne jects : flotte, weir, stock; est neid probleme. (Ed dat Oraryum eet un bahsa ios aysaiwios, id khact dahe werds pro historic zamans !)

Bet, pro id reste, conscie od "modernitat" est un relative concept. Mathalan, id "moderne super-bahsa" Englisch est pleno med werds ex veut franceois ! (Itak francophones ne ghabe ma allophones preferent Englisch ad Franceois... :-)).

Sei dehlgiem invente un tienxia planbahsa aun oraryo, emiem basic werds ex Basic Englisch. Naturelika, tik oik centens millionen leuden druve-ye bahnt gohd Englisch, bet kad oino milliard gnoht sem Englisch werds.

Tun  habiem ka bahsa :  mi lov yu =I love you;  mi fink zat = I think that.... etc. etc...

Bet, sei in oik decennia Englisch leust sien importance (pro Chinese, Espaniol ???), tod "novbahsa" habsiet biht "veut".

Eti ghehds vide to in "veut" planbahsas kam Esperanto. Ye id zaman os Zamenhof & C°, Franceois eet id prestigieusst international bahsa. Englisch ne eet meg util exter id Britisch Empire ed ia Uniet Stats. Itak sont 80% iom Esperanto werds commun con Franceois.

Ed imagine sei un humaniste habiet invent un planbahsa pre id XVIII° secule, tod bahsa esiet sigwra baset exclusive-ye ep Latin ed Awo Hellen.

Ye un certain zaman, est possible determine procentages om werdskauts in bahsas. Bet zamans ed procentages change...

Itak ho scriben to in "Alice" :

Oin solution habiet ghohden ses eme id demographic importance iom moderne bahsas, ed nudes ta procentages kay hissabe id smyehr ielgios in id vocabular ios planbahsa. Okwivid-ye ta hoydic procentages differnt significant-ye ud ta ios tid kun Carroll scripsit Alice. Mien wi solution hat esto chehxe ia launwerds trohft in variat bahsas ob sont minter changil, chunke id international position os uno “mundlingua” ghehdt bihe alteren dramatic-ye af historic wakyas. Mathalan, Parsi dieughit ka lingua franca in pleisto Sudasia, hin ids prestige sohnk ob id decline ios Ottoman Empire ed id Britisch krig os Hind. Quayque Englisch ghehdt ses meis util quem Parsi pro semanghen safernd in pleista Sudasiat lands nundiens, id awo vyige os Parsi ghehdt dar ses midt med id quantitat om Parsi launwerds in ia linguas baht in ta regions. Iaghi launwerds ex Englisch do ta bahsas maghe ses restrict ad meg specialiset topics, kam sports ed computer program­mation, au gouvernemental res in prever Britisch colonias. Resultat-ye, Sambahsa dar includt uno majoritat “Europayen” werds bet ghyant sien dwers alyims continents, besonters ad Arab-Parsi isoglosses quom tienxia impact hat esen pior frequent-ye misvohrten ab auxlangers (vide id exempel infra os chay). Fulan tolkmon in plur major bahsas ghehdt desciffer Sambahsa. Talg buit id fall os Michael Everson, pepermen linguiste samt neid prever training in Sambahsa, qui hat ghohden detege ia defects qua mathmounit id presto draft miens tarjem.

Aproposs "woid".  :  In fact, "woid" eet un important ed irregular verb in Oraryo : http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/w%C3%B3yd-

Est lyt kam id verb "ihes" pro romanc bahsa con "ir, voy, aller, je vais"... est un "kwekmor" os araryo...

Lakin, De Wahl sayct yaschi un gohd arguen heruper, nam-ye: "Li international comprensibilità del paroles deve esser direct, ìnmediatmen sensibil por omni educat homes mem sin latin studies preparatori, ne solmen por docti latinistes. Departiente solmen del latin on posse nequande arrivar a un modern international lingue, quel contene adminim un ters de vocabules non-latinic. Circa un demí de omni latin paroles es mort por sempre e ne plu posse esser revivificat. Li rot del historie ne torna a retro. Nequande plu li antiqui signification de copia (stock, multitè), charta (paper), lapis (rocc, petre), classis (flotte) etc posse reviver." 

In id zaman eet latin quasi un symbol os to quod maynt "ses tamijdar", bet mien kyunggiawen ep "ìnmediatmen sensibil" (inkaptos kheissas, sei tarjmo correct-ye) est maghses to quo est dar meg difficil in sambahsa. Vido od ne est un probleme ios concept pet, bet maghses ios weidos med quod sambahsa biht diken ad tamijdar nehakimes kam ego! Id est kwecto id probleme ios didactique.

 

Experiment

Ob io nuper ho kwohrn un experiment con lidepla, nun est roig pro sambahsa. Id ziel buit simplifie id werdskaut kay sambahsa est meis facil pro prete. Med "simplifie" mayno, selege werds qua sont preten ab meis leuds. Pro tod experiment ho retarjen id inkap os "Is Gospoti" quod est her.

Mamma mohr hoyd. Au maghses heri, ne vedo. Ho recept un telegramme ex id gerosdom: "mater decess. Dafan cras. Sellsto namos." To maynt neid. Maghses to eet heri.

Id gerosdom est in Marengo, octgim kilometers dalg ud Alger. Prensiem id autobus ye dwo saat ed arrivesiem in id posmiddien. Sic, maghsiem wakhe ed reiksiem ad hem cras vesper. Ho demanden dwo diens ud mien boss ed is ne poiss mi refuse (ne preto "ia face un lik excuse"...). Bet is ne semblit glad. Ho hatta saygen ei: "to ne est mien fault". Is ne mi hat antwohrden. Ho tunc pensen od ne habiem tohrben sayge to ad iom. In summ, io ne dohlg excuse meswo. Anter is tunc tohrb mi skau sien condolences. Bet is agiet to aundub poscras, quan is me vidsiet trist. Ye tod moment, est lyt kamsei mamma ne habiet mohrt. Pos id dafan, to sessiet stablen fall ("pagen re"?) ed hol habsiet prenen un officialer aspect.

Ho yisen tod texte ad Olivier ed tod buit eys antwehrd:

 Haha dank !Lakin, ne ghabo ma has changet certain werds ed ne alya. Ne som "anti-romanc", yed, sei voliem druve-ye scribe in un romanc auxlang, tarjiem do Occidental-Interlingue, un nisbatan gohd auxlang (samt von Wahl reuls :-)). Ed mae myehrs od sem werds pors ka "pan-romanc" ne sont druve-ye ithan; ex: "pren" exist tik in Franceois ed Italian, bet ne in Espaniol, ni in Romune. "Sic" est latin, bet hams "ainsi" in Franceois, "così" in Italian, "asì" in Espagnol, "assim" in Portuguesche. Schowi, semjecto kam *assih esiet meis logic.

(ed tod roman wakyet in Algeria, quer nundiens id official bahsa est Arab, esdi maung local weikers sagve yaschi franceois).

"bes" ob "besic" ed "besoyn", esdi, admitto, "boss" est nundiens popularer ob Englisch.

"face" = "to face", "face to". , bet to manct in in dictionar. Dank pro tod remark.

Tod buit mien antwehrd:

Lakin, ne ghabo ma has changet certain werds ed ne alya.

Ho piten change werds qua semblent* lyt util au qua ne sont preten ab id pleisto em bahtors, au qua ne habent sem psycologic relation con alyo ject. "Ghes" anghen ghehdt relate med "gestern" ed minter med "yesterday", bet id relation est destull obscure. "Heri" ye mieno mayn hat un clarer relation con simile romanic werds, ed esiet yinjier preten ab meis leuds, au id psycologic relation esiet meis facil pro meis leuds.

Verb "woid" hat yaschi un meg obscure relation con "wissen", pro exempel, bet "ved" est directer relaten con chekh "vědět", , ed con svenska ed norsk "vet", dansk "vide", polska "wiedzieć", slovakisch "vedieť", etc. Slovianski "věděti (vě)".

"pren" exist tik in Franceois ed Italian, bet ne in Espaniol

No! In espaniol ter id verb "prender" quod bayna alya jects maynt "em", ka prest mayno. Ne gnohm id druv situation in portughesche au romune, bet som yakin od tod werd de interlingua ne buit select random-ye.

"Assih" semblet* meg stragn. "Sic" est yaschi espaniol ed englisch. Tod werd biht nuden pro dikes od un werd quod semblet* fals est textual. Id biht nuden ka editorial annotation.

"Pens" gwehmt ab mien pondos od psycologic-ye ne est gohd habe ta dwo simile werds "mehn" ed "mehm". "Mehm" anghen trehvt in "memoria", "memorizar", etc. "Mehn" hat un obscurer relation mathalan con slovianski "mněti (mni)". "Pens" est ye alyo gon meis caracteristic ed comprehensibler ab id romanic mund. Ne som yakin quel pretiet id werd "mehn".

Penso* yaschi od "kwehr" est incomprehensible. "Ag" est "transparenter", minst bariem pro romanic leuds. Ne penso* od anghen dehlct myehrse od romanic bahsas sont baht ab maung leuds pro age un druve-ye international bahsa. Ne esiet besonters mal od sambahsa wides sem romanic werds ob to, sei ne exist alyo werd quod est preten ab meis leuds.

Ye alyo gon, derivations sont important. Lises un texte in sambahsa est meg difficil ob id werdskaut, ed bahe mathalan "begrabhen" anstatt "dafan" est gohder. Alyo option est habe "dafan" yaschi ka verb. Aproposs, trehvo od in Hindi anghen translittert "daphana" con 'ph'. Ma anghen hat id con 'f' in Sambahsa?

Quod est vies mayno? Kwe est id texte lyt meis comprehensible pro vos?